Post by TonyBombassolo on May 26, 2023 23:06:47 GMT
Sergeant Edgar Crosswell is testifying on June 30th, 1958 before the United States Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in Labor and Management, otherwise known as the McLellan Committee. He was the lead officer on the Apalachin arrests November 14th, 1957.
Mr. CROSSWELL. It is rather embarrassing, it was so simple. My partner and myself were investigating a bad-check case in a motel in Vestal.
Senator Ives. Just a minute. Your partner, did you say?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Senator Ives. Who is that?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Trooper Vasasko. (Vincent Vasisco)
The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.
Mr. CROSSWELL. And since the 1956 meeting in the Arlington Hotel, we had been very alert and watching the hotels and motels for any other people who registered and had their bills charged to Barbara. We saw young Joseph Barbara approaching the motel and so we stepped into the proprietor's living room, which is directly in back of the office, and young Joseph Barbara came in and he engaged three rooms for the night of November 13 and 14, and he said he wanted them charged to Canada Dry Bottling Co., and wanted to pick up the keys then. The proprietor's wife asked him to register and he told her that he could not register then because they were having a convention of Canada Dry men and he did not know just who was going to occupy the rooms, and he would register for them the next day. So they gave him the keys and he went on out. We checked around that evening and up at Barbara's house we found Patsy Turrigiano's car, whom we knew was a still operator, and a car registered to a James V. LaDuca, of Lewiston, N. Y.
Mr. KENNEDY. Who is he, first!
Mr. CROSSWELL. He was a union official, of hotel and restaurant
union.
Senator Ives. In Buffalo?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
There was another car there with a New Jersey registration issued to an Alfred Angelicola, of Paterson, N. J. That was about 9 o'clock at night. We checked back to the motel at 9:30 and we saw an Ohio registered car and we checked that registration and it was issued to the Buckeye Cigarette Service, of Cleveland, Ohio, operated by a man named John Scalish. We asked the proprietor about that car and he said two men had driven in and went into one of the rooms that Barbara had reserved, and so we sent him out with a couple of registration cards to get the men to register. He came back and he said that they had refused to register and said that "Joe" would take care of it the next day. He wanted to throw them out, and we told him no, to leave them there. We wanted to see what was going to happen. So with the fact that Patsy Turrigiano's car that was up at Barbara's house, we thought there might be something to do with another still getting under motion, and we got in touch with the Alcohol-Tobacco Tax Unit agents in that area, Kenneth Brown, and Arthur Rustin, and asked them to come down about midnight, I believe. They got down to our station. We checked around until 2:30 in the morning and nothing further happened except a car of LaDuca appeared before one of the other rooms that Barbara reserved at the Parkway Motel. The next morning the Ohio cars stayed at the motel and LaDuca's car left about 8:30 and we checked the rooms and the men had taken everything out of the rooms, and all of the beds had been occupied which indicated that 4 men had come with LaDuca in his car, because only 2 were there from the Ohio car. Then we started, and I notified the inspector, Inspector Sidney, there were some strange cars in the area and it looked as though Barbara might be having another meeting, and we were going to check it out, and we would get in touch with him later. So my partner and the two agents and I drove down to the plant and there was nothing around there, and we drove up to Barbara's residence and that is when the stuff hit the fan. We drove in, and everybody started running in all directions.
Mr. KENNEDY. Could you point out on the chart? Could you go over there and point out what occurred or we can bring it over here, the chart. (A chart was brought before the witness.)
Mr. KENNEDY. Could you go over and point out where you came in, Sergeant, and where the cars were?
The CHAIRMAN. First, identify the picture, and what is it?
Mr. CROSSWELL. This is a picture of the main buildings of Barbara's home, and his residence. There is a town road running right past here, which does not show on this picture. We came up this road and turned into this driveway and 4 or 5 cars were parked here. First of all, this is a two-car garage, with a dog kennel on this end, and there is a large barbecue pit and this is a picnic pavilion, and air conditioned. This is the main house, and this is one of his tenant houses. As we came in here, a lot of men ran from around the barbecue pit and around this corner and some ran for the house, and some came out of the house and ran the other way, and everybody got all excited and all worked up.
The CHAIRMAN. Could we have a microphone there?
Mr. KENNEDY. Now, can you go to the bigger one, I think.
The CHAIRMAN. Point out again what you have just said. I did not even hear you from up here.
Mr. CROSSWELL. There is a town road leading along this side which does not show on this photograph. We came up that and turned into the driveway and there were 4 or 5 cars here and men ran from the barbecue pit around to this corner of the house, or this corner of the garage, and then into the house, and some of them came from the house and ran down this way, and we backed out and started on down the road here.
Mr. KENNEDY. That is all for now. Now, would you come over to this chart, and we will put the lights. Would you explain what happened, where you went after you backed down the road?
Mr. CROSSWELL. This is a town road and we came back down, down between this row of houses and over to here where you can see a light spot on the photograph. There we parked our car and called for a uniformed car to meet us at that location. This ride from here down, we talked over what we were going to do, and we decided the only thing we could do was stop everybody and find out who were in the cars as they came out of the place.
Senator MUNDT. Is that the only exit road to the house?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is the only way to get out there, yes. The road past here ends at a washed-out bridge down below this farm-house, and this road ends here at a washed-out bridge, so the only way to get out was through this road. As we were setting up a roadblock here, we could not see the Barbara buildings themselves, but we could see this open field, and we saw 10 or 12 men running from the direction of Barbara's house into this pine woods. So, the first cars that we got down here in this area we set up a road over here called the McFadden Road that circles these woods and meets another road that goes down through here known as the Creek Road. There was no place that these people could go, and they had to come out here either in open fields or on the McFadden Road or the Creek Road, and they rounded those up. Then everybody came down and we stopped them at the roadblock. After we saw that we were running into a real bunch of unsavory characters, we decided to take them all in to the substation and get as much information from them as we could.
Senator MUNDT. How many did you pick up altogether?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Sixty-two, but that included two characters of Barbara's, so there were 60.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you set up a roadblock on the other road, where they could go around and get back into town?
Mr. CROSSWELL. There is no way that they could get back into town, sir. They had to come down either the Creek Road or the McFadden Road, and we had those roads blocked off, plus roving patrols over each of those roads. We were picking them up as they came out of the woods, 1 or 2 at a time.
The CHAIRMAN. They came out of the woods and they ran into the woods, and then were walking when you picked them up?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I see.
Mr. KENNEDY. Could you describe what they looked like, some of these people?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Before they went in the woods or afterward?
Mr. KENNEDY. Well, describe both.
Mr. CROSSWELL. Well, they were all dressed for the most part in silk suits, and white on white shirts, and highly polished, pointed shoes, and broad brimmed hats, and typical George Raft style.
Mr. KENNEDY. Was that before they went in the woods?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. What did they look like the ones you picked up, that came out of the woods?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Some of them lost their hats and they were a little bedraggled, and three were full of cockle burrs and their shoes were kind of scuffy.
Mr. KENNEDY. What about Montana? Do you remember having any discussion with him?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes; Montana was down in the road block and he had been picked up in a field over on the McFadden Road, caught in a barbed-wire fence. The troopers brought him down to me, and I had a spare car there, and I set him in the car waiting for transportation.
Mr. KENNEDY. He is from Buffalo, N. Y.?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. That is John Charles Montana!
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. Who is he?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He called me over to the house and he sent a man over and said he wanted to see me and I went over and he told me he was very embarrassed being there, and he had just stopped in to see Barbara, and did not know that there was going to be any such gang of characters as he found up there, and if I would let him go up and get his car and get out of there he could probably do something for me. He started mentioning a lot of prominent people that he knew in Buffalo and that area and one of the officials of our department that he knew very well. He mentioned no specific thing that he could do for me, but that he could do something for me if I would let him go and get his car.
Senator Ives. How was he attired? Did he have the George Raft attire, too?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir; top coat and all.
Senator Ives. Pointed shoes and all?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Senator Ives. Large hat?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Senator Ives. He had all of that on to have a cup of tea?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is his story.
(At this point, the following members were present: Senators McClellan, Ives, Ervin, and Mundt.)
Mr. KENNEDY. What time did you set up the roadblock?
Mr. CROSSWELL. We pulled in the yard at 12:40. We had the road-block in operation at 12:15, but for all practical purposes-
Senator MUNDT. Was that daytime or night?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Daytime. It was from 12:40 at the time we were in there, and no one went in or out of that road from 12:40 on.
Mr. KENNEDY. I understand Mr. Montana made some statements that he arrived after noon that day.
Mr. CROSSWELL. I have heard him make that statement at hearings, and he said he arrived there at 2:30.
Mr. KENNEDY. Would it have been possible for him to get there at 2:30?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He could not have gotten in there after 12:40. He also has told the story that his car broke down. He said nothing to me that day about his car breaking down.
The CHAIRMAN. That signals a rollcall vote in the Senate. The committee will have to stand in recess temporarily. We will return as soon as the Senators have voted. (Brief recess, with the following members present: Senators McClellan, Ives, Ervin, and Mundt.)
(At the reconvening of the session, the following members were present: Senator McClellan and Ives.)
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Proceed, Mr. KENNEDY.
Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. LaDuca from the Hotel and Restaurant Workers' Union has denied, as I understand it, to our investigators, that he was even present at the meeting. Do you know if he was present?
Mr. CROSSWELL. On the night of November 13, LaDuca's car was at the Barbara residence. Later that night it stayed up at one of the rooms reserved at the Parkway Motel by young Barbara, and stayed there all night. In the wastepaper basket of that room we found a hotel bill from 2 different hotels, in the name of James LaDuca, and 1 in the name of Charles Montana. When LaDuca was picked up, we found matches from the Parkway Motel in his pockets. On Sunday, following the raid on Thursday, we found LaDuca's car parked in the garage at Barbara's house; rather, the barn at Barbara's house. When we picked him up that night, he denied that he had ever been at the Parkway Motel, or that he had been at Barbara's place. We told him about seeing his car there the night before, about seeing it at the Parkway Motel, and he said he was just on his way through from Buffalo, N. Y. If we had seen his car in that area, the car must have been stolen.
Mr. KENNEDY. You say that you got the possessions of these various people. Did they have money on them?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did they have wallets?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Very few had wallets. Most of them just had their money loose in their pocket, and for identification they would have an operator's license or registration of a car in their shirt pocket.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did sums of money get large in any case?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes. Most of them ran between two and three thousand dollars that they would have in their pockets.
Mr. KENNEDY. That was in cash!
Mr. CROSSWELL, Cash.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did Mr. Scozzari have a greater amount?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Scozzari had about $10,000, but $8,000 of that was in a certified check from a bank in California.
Mr. KENNEDY. What was his employment at the time?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He had been unemployed for 20 years.
Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Mancuso, did he tell you where he was employed at the time?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes. He gave me a business card of a Nu-Form Concrete Co. in Utica, N. Y., listing him as president of that company. We sent some of our men up there to check for him, to try to serve a subpoena on him, and there was no such address as the address given on the card. It was a residential area with no concrete business there. They could find no trace of the concrete business.
Mr. KENNEDY. On the card it said he was president of the company?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. Is there any way that you could tell or prove that the meeting was actually planned ahead and that these people all didn't just drop in to see their sick friend Joseph Barbara?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes. On the 5th day of November 1957—that was 9 days prior to the actual meeting-Barbara called the Armour Co. in Binghamton, N. Y., and placed an order for prime steaks. The steaks that he ordered were their best cuts of meat and stuff that Armour in Binghamton, a city of 80,000, does not even stock. They had to send to Chicago after them. That was picked up on the 13th by one of Barbara's trucks and signed for by one of his caretakers named Blossom. The bill for the steaks was $399.10.
Mr. KENNEDY. They had to send out of town for the steaks?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. To Chicago?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
(At this point, Senator MUNDT entered the hearing room.)
Mr. KENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman. I wish to express the appreciation of the staff to Sergeant Crosswell for all the assistance he has given.
The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions?
Senator Ives. I have no questions outside of the fact that I would like to thank the sergeant for being here today and cooperating the
Mr. CROSSWELL. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator MUNDT.
Senator MUNDT. Just before we were called over for the vote, sergeant, we were talking about a fellow by the name of Montana. That being a western name kind of intrigued me a little. You said that he had sort of propositioned you out in your car about being able to pull some influence and be of assistance to you up in Buffalo if you should just pretend you had not seen him there. Then, if I understood you correctly, and I am not sure I did, you mentioned that at some hearings he had explained his presence. What was the nature of those hearings?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That was before the—the place where I heard him testify was before the Legislative Watchdog Committee of the New York State Legislature in Albany.
Senator MUNDT. Were they interrogating him about this meeting of hoodlums that he attended?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes.
Senator MUNDT. And did he change his story during those hearings or did he tell them a different story from what he had told you?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He told them a different story than he had told me.
Senator MUNDT. As I understand the story he had told you, he had just dropped in casually for tea and was quite surprised at the type of characters who were there.
Mr. CROSSWELL. He said nothing about tea. He said he was an old friend of the Barbara family who was driving through and just stopped in to see him.
Senator MUNDT. What did he tell the watchdog committee?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He told the watchdog committee that some 50 miles prior to reaching Apalachin, his car had developed trouble with the brakes and the windshield wipers. It was raining and he had looked all along the road for a gas station or garage and could not find any. He remembered that he knew Joe Barbara, he had trucks and would
probably have mechanics around, so he drove up there to get his wind-shield wipers fixed. Then he was cold and chilled from the rain and the cold ride, and he had gone inside and asked Mrs. Barbara to prepare a cup of tea for him, to warm him up.
Senator MUNDT. I would think a good invigorating run through the woods would tend to warm him up a little bit, too.
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes.
Senator MUNDT. I suppose that story came so late that you chance to check his car to determine whether or not it really had trouble?
Mr. CROSSWELL. No. In fact, when he told that story, he had sent mechanics down from Buffalo to pick up his car, and he had receipted bills, or they had fixed the windshield wipers and they had fixed the brakes on the car. But it was apparently all ready to go at the time he was begging me to let him get out of there. All he wanted to do was to go up and get that car and get out of there.
Senator MUNDT. Quite obviously, a story of that kind, which is pretty inoffensive, would have been the logical thing to have told you at the roadblock, had it been based on fact.
Mr. CROSSWELL. I would think so, yes.
Senator MUNDT. It would seem so to me. There is nothing reprehensible about having car trouble, if that had been the thing that brought him in. It would have been the first thing, I would think, that would have sprung from his lips at the time he was trying to explain to you his presence there. Does this man Montana have a police record ?
Mr. CROSSWELL. No, not that I know of, sir.
Senator MUNDT. Does he have a pistol permit?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He did have one. He surrendered it immediately after the Apalachin meeting.
Senator MUNDT. But he had the pistol permit at the time he attended the Apalachin meeting?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, and a pistol.
Senator MUNDT. Your pistol permits relate only to carrying a pistol, do they not? Not to having one in your possession in your home?
Mr. CROSSWELL. You have to have a permit in New York State to even possess one, possess or carry.
Senator MUNDT. And the same permit is available which enables you to carry one as to possess one?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much.
Senator Ives. Just a moment, Mr. Chairman. What was the make of the car Mr. Montana was driving?
Mr. CROSSWELL. A 1957 Cadillac.
Senator Ives. That was new, then, last year, the year he was driving it?
Mr. CROSSWELL. It was practically brand new at that time.
Senator Ives. And here he was having all of this trouble with it?
Mr. CROSSWELL. So he says.
Senator Ives. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much, Sergeant Crosswell. We appreciate the cooperation you have given us, and your willingness to be of all the assistance you could.
Mr. CROSSWELL. It is rather embarrassing, it was so simple. My partner and myself were investigating a bad-check case in a motel in Vestal.
Senator Ives. Just a minute. Your partner, did you say?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Senator Ives. Who is that?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Trooper Vasasko. (Vincent Vasisco)
The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.
Mr. CROSSWELL. And since the 1956 meeting in the Arlington Hotel, we had been very alert and watching the hotels and motels for any other people who registered and had their bills charged to Barbara. We saw young Joseph Barbara approaching the motel and so we stepped into the proprietor's living room, which is directly in back of the office, and young Joseph Barbara came in and he engaged three rooms for the night of November 13 and 14, and he said he wanted them charged to Canada Dry Bottling Co., and wanted to pick up the keys then. The proprietor's wife asked him to register and he told her that he could not register then because they were having a convention of Canada Dry men and he did not know just who was going to occupy the rooms, and he would register for them the next day. So they gave him the keys and he went on out. We checked around that evening and up at Barbara's house we found Patsy Turrigiano's car, whom we knew was a still operator, and a car registered to a James V. LaDuca, of Lewiston, N. Y.
Mr. KENNEDY. Who is he, first!
Mr. CROSSWELL. He was a union official, of hotel and restaurant
union.
Senator Ives. In Buffalo?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
There was another car there with a New Jersey registration issued to an Alfred Angelicola, of Paterson, N. J. That was about 9 o'clock at night. We checked back to the motel at 9:30 and we saw an Ohio registered car and we checked that registration and it was issued to the Buckeye Cigarette Service, of Cleveland, Ohio, operated by a man named John Scalish. We asked the proprietor about that car and he said two men had driven in and went into one of the rooms that Barbara had reserved, and so we sent him out with a couple of registration cards to get the men to register. He came back and he said that they had refused to register and said that "Joe" would take care of it the next day. He wanted to throw them out, and we told him no, to leave them there. We wanted to see what was going to happen. So with the fact that Patsy Turrigiano's car that was up at Barbara's house, we thought there might be something to do with another still getting under motion, and we got in touch with the Alcohol-Tobacco Tax Unit agents in that area, Kenneth Brown, and Arthur Rustin, and asked them to come down about midnight, I believe. They got down to our station. We checked around until 2:30 in the morning and nothing further happened except a car of LaDuca appeared before one of the other rooms that Barbara reserved at the Parkway Motel. The next morning the Ohio cars stayed at the motel and LaDuca's car left about 8:30 and we checked the rooms and the men had taken everything out of the rooms, and all of the beds had been occupied which indicated that 4 men had come with LaDuca in his car, because only 2 were there from the Ohio car. Then we started, and I notified the inspector, Inspector Sidney, there were some strange cars in the area and it looked as though Barbara might be having another meeting, and we were going to check it out, and we would get in touch with him later. So my partner and the two agents and I drove down to the plant and there was nothing around there, and we drove up to Barbara's residence and that is when the stuff hit the fan. We drove in, and everybody started running in all directions.
Mr. KENNEDY. Could you point out on the chart? Could you go over there and point out what occurred or we can bring it over here, the chart. (A chart was brought before the witness.)
Mr. KENNEDY. Could you go over and point out where you came in, Sergeant, and where the cars were?
The CHAIRMAN. First, identify the picture, and what is it?
Mr. CROSSWELL. This is a picture of the main buildings of Barbara's home, and his residence. There is a town road running right past here, which does not show on this picture. We came up this road and turned into this driveway and 4 or 5 cars were parked here. First of all, this is a two-car garage, with a dog kennel on this end, and there is a large barbecue pit and this is a picnic pavilion, and air conditioned. This is the main house, and this is one of his tenant houses. As we came in here, a lot of men ran from around the barbecue pit and around this corner and some ran for the house, and some came out of the house and ran the other way, and everybody got all excited and all worked up.
The CHAIRMAN. Could we have a microphone there?
Mr. KENNEDY. Now, can you go to the bigger one, I think.
The CHAIRMAN. Point out again what you have just said. I did not even hear you from up here.
Mr. CROSSWELL. There is a town road leading along this side which does not show on this photograph. We came up that and turned into the driveway and there were 4 or 5 cars here and men ran from the barbecue pit around to this corner of the house, or this corner of the garage, and then into the house, and some of them came from the house and ran down this way, and we backed out and started on down the road here.
Mr. KENNEDY. That is all for now. Now, would you come over to this chart, and we will put the lights. Would you explain what happened, where you went after you backed down the road?
Mr. CROSSWELL. This is a town road and we came back down, down between this row of houses and over to here where you can see a light spot on the photograph. There we parked our car and called for a uniformed car to meet us at that location. This ride from here down, we talked over what we were going to do, and we decided the only thing we could do was stop everybody and find out who were in the cars as they came out of the place.
Senator MUNDT. Is that the only exit road to the house?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is the only way to get out there, yes. The road past here ends at a washed-out bridge down below this farm-house, and this road ends here at a washed-out bridge, so the only way to get out was through this road. As we were setting up a roadblock here, we could not see the Barbara buildings themselves, but we could see this open field, and we saw 10 or 12 men running from the direction of Barbara's house into this pine woods. So, the first cars that we got down here in this area we set up a road over here called the McFadden Road that circles these woods and meets another road that goes down through here known as the Creek Road. There was no place that these people could go, and they had to come out here either in open fields or on the McFadden Road or the Creek Road, and they rounded those up. Then everybody came down and we stopped them at the roadblock. After we saw that we were running into a real bunch of unsavory characters, we decided to take them all in to the substation and get as much information from them as we could.
Senator MUNDT. How many did you pick up altogether?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Sixty-two, but that included two characters of Barbara's, so there were 60.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you set up a roadblock on the other road, where they could go around and get back into town?
Mr. CROSSWELL. There is no way that they could get back into town, sir. They had to come down either the Creek Road or the McFadden Road, and we had those roads blocked off, plus roving patrols over each of those roads. We were picking them up as they came out of the woods, 1 or 2 at a time.
The CHAIRMAN. They came out of the woods and they ran into the woods, and then were walking when you picked them up?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I see.
Mr. KENNEDY. Could you describe what they looked like, some of these people?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Before they went in the woods or afterward?
Mr. KENNEDY. Well, describe both.
Mr. CROSSWELL. Well, they were all dressed for the most part in silk suits, and white on white shirts, and highly polished, pointed shoes, and broad brimmed hats, and typical George Raft style.
Mr. KENNEDY. Was that before they went in the woods?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. What did they look like the ones you picked up, that came out of the woods?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Some of them lost their hats and they were a little bedraggled, and three were full of cockle burrs and their shoes were kind of scuffy.
Mr. KENNEDY. What about Montana? Do you remember having any discussion with him?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes; Montana was down in the road block and he had been picked up in a field over on the McFadden Road, caught in a barbed-wire fence. The troopers brought him down to me, and I had a spare car there, and I set him in the car waiting for transportation.
Mr. KENNEDY. He is from Buffalo, N. Y.?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. That is John Charles Montana!
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. Who is he?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He called me over to the house and he sent a man over and said he wanted to see me and I went over and he told me he was very embarrassed being there, and he had just stopped in to see Barbara, and did not know that there was going to be any such gang of characters as he found up there, and if I would let him go up and get his car and get out of there he could probably do something for me. He started mentioning a lot of prominent people that he knew in Buffalo and that area and one of the officials of our department that he knew very well. He mentioned no specific thing that he could do for me, but that he could do something for me if I would let him go and get his car.
Senator Ives. How was he attired? Did he have the George Raft attire, too?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir; top coat and all.
Senator Ives. Pointed shoes and all?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Senator Ives. Large hat?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Senator Ives. He had all of that on to have a cup of tea?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is his story.
(At this point, the following members were present: Senators McClellan, Ives, Ervin, and Mundt.)
Mr. KENNEDY. What time did you set up the roadblock?
Mr. CROSSWELL. We pulled in the yard at 12:40. We had the road-block in operation at 12:15, but for all practical purposes-
Senator MUNDT. Was that daytime or night?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Daytime. It was from 12:40 at the time we were in there, and no one went in or out of that road from 12:40 on.
Mr. KENNEDY. I understand Mr. Montana made some statements that he arrived after noon that day.
Mr. CROSSWELL. I have heard him make that statement at hearings, and he said he arrived there at 2:30.
Mr. KENNEDY. Would it have been possible for him to get there at 2:30?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He could not have gotten in there after 12:40. He also has told the story that his car broke down. He said nothing to me that day about his car breaking down.
The CHAIRMAN. That signals a rollcall vote in the Senate. The committee will have to stand in recess temporarily. We will return as soon as the Senators have voted. (Brief recess, with the following members present: Senators McClellan, Ives, Ervin, and Mundt.)
(At the reconvening of the session, the following members were present: Senator McClellan and Ives.)
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Proceed, Mr. KENNEDY.
Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. LaDuca from the Hotel and Restaurant Workers' Union has denied, as I understand it, to our investigators, that he was even present at the meeting. Do you know if he was present?
Mr. CROSSWELL. On the night of November 13, LaDuca's car was at the Barbara residence. Later that night it stayed up at one of the rooms reserved at the Parkway Motel by young Barbara, and stayed there all night. In the wastepaper basket of that room we found a hotel bill from 2 different hotels, in the name of James LaDuca, and 1 in the name of Charles Montana. When LaDuca was picked up, we found matches from the Parkway Motel in his pockets. On Sunday, following the raid on Thursday, we found LaDuca's car parked in the garage at Barbara's house; rather, the barn at Barbara's house. When we picked him up that night, he denied that he had ever been at the Parkway Motel, or that he had been at Barbara's place. We told him about seeing his car there the night before, about seeing it at the Parkway Motel, and he said he was just on his way through from Buffalo, N. Y. If we had seen his car in that area, the car must have been stolen.
Mr. KENNEDY. You say that you got the possessions of these various people. Did they have money on them?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did they have wallets?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Very few had wallets. Most of them just had their money loose in their pocket, and for identification they would have an operator's license or registration of a car in their shirt pocket.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did sums of money get large in any case?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes. Most of them ran between two and three thousand dollars that they would have in their pockets.
Mr. KENNEDY. That was in cash!
Mr. CROSSWELL, Cash.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did Mr. Scozzari have a greater amount?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Scozzari had about $10,000, but $8,000 of that was in a certified check from a bank in California.
Mr. KENNEDY. What was his employment at the time?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He had been unemployed for 20 years.
Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Mancuso, did he tell you where he was employed at the time?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes. He gave me a business card of a Nu-Form Concrete Co. in Utica, N. Y., listing him as president of that company. We sent some of our men up there to check for him, to try to serve a subpoena on him, and there was no such address as the address given on the card. It was a residential area with no concrete business there. They could find no trace of the concrete business.
Mr. KENNEDY. On the card it said he was president of the company?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. Is there any way that you could tell or prove that the meeting was actually planned ahead and that these people all didn't just drop in to see their sick friend Joseph Barbara?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes. On the 5th day of November 1957—that was 9 days prior to the actual meeting-Barbara called the Armour Co. in Binghamton, N. Y., and placed an order for prime steaks. The steaks that he ordered were their best cuts of meat and stuff that Armour in Binghamton, a city of 80,000, does not even stock. They had to send to Chicago after them. That was picked up on the 13th by one of Barbara's trucks and signed for by one of his caretakers named Blossom. The bill for the steaks was $399.10.
Mr. KENNEDY. They had to send out of town for the steaks?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. To Chicago?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
(At this point, Senator MUNDT entered the hearing room.)
Mr. KENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman. I wish to express the appreciation of the staff to Sergeant Crosswell for all the assistance he has given.
The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions?
Senator Ives. I have no questions outside of the fact that I would like to thank the sergeant for being here today and cooperating the
Mr. CROSSWELL. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator MUNDT.
Senator MUNDT. Just before we were called over for the vote, sergeant, we were talking about a fellow by the name of Montana. That being a western name kind of intrigued me a little. You said that he had sort of propositioned you out in your car about being able to pull some influence and be of assistance to you up in Buffalo if you should just pretend you had not seen him there. Then, if I understood you correctly, and I am not sure I did, you mentioned that at some hearings he had explained his presence. What was the nature of those hearings?
Mr. CROSSWELL. That was before the—the place where I heard him testify was before the Legislative Watchdog Committee of the New York State Legislature in Albany.
Senator MUNDT. Were they interrogating him about this meeting of hoodlums that he attended?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes.
Senator MUNDT. And did he change his story during those hearings or did he tell them a different story from what he had told you?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He told them a different story than he had told me.
Senator MUNDT. As I understand the story he had told you, he had just dropped in casually for tea and was quite surprised at the type of characters who were there.
Mr. CROSSWELL. He said nothing about tea. He said he was an old friend of the Barbara family who was driving through and just stopped in to see him.
Senator MUNDT. What did he tell the watchdog committee?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He told the watchdog committee that some 50 miles prior to reaching Apalachin, his car had developed trouble with the brakes and the windshield wipers. It was raining and he had looked all along the road for a gas station or garage and could not find any. He remembered that he knew Joe Barbara, he had trucks and would
probably have mechanics around, so he drove up there to get his wind-shield wipers fixed. Then he was cold and chilled from the rain and the cold ride, and he had gone inside and asked Mrs. Barbara to prepare a cup of tea for him, to warm him up.
Senator MUNDT. I would think a good invigorating run through the woods would tend to warm him up a little bit, too.
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes.
Senator MUNDT. I suppose that story came so late that you chance to check his car to determine whether or not it really had trouble?
Mr. CROSSWELL. No. In fact, when he told that story, he had sent mechanics down from Buffalo to pick up his car, and he had receipted bills, or they had fixed the windshield wipers and they had fixed the brakes on the car. But it was apparently all ready to go at the time he was begging me to let him get out of there. All he wanted to do was to go up and get that car and get out of there.
Senator MUNDT. Quite obviously, a story of that kind, which is pretty inoffensive, would have been the logical thing to have told you at the roadblock, had it been based on fact.
Mr. CROSSWELL. I would think so, yes.
Senator MUNDT. It would seem so to me. There is nothing reprehensible about having car trouble, if that had been the thing that brought him in. It would have been the first thing, I would think, that would have sprung from his lips at the time he was trying to explain to you his presence there. Does this man Montana have a police record ?
Mr. CROSSWELL. No, not that I know of, sir.
Senator MUNDT. Does he have a pistol permit?
Mr. CROSSWELL. He did have one. He surrendered it immediately after the Apalachin meeting.
Senator MUNDT. But he had the pistol permit at the time he attended the Apalachin meeting?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, and a pistol.
Senator MUNDT. Your pistol permits relate only to carrying a pistol, do they not? Not to having one in your possession in your home?
Mr. CROSSWELL. You have to have a permit in New York State to even possess one, possess or carry.
Senator MUNDT. And the same permit is available which enables you to carry one as to possess one?
Mr. CROSSWELL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much.
Senator Ives. Just a moment, Mr. Chairman. What was the make of the car Mr. Montana was driving?
Mr. CROSSWELL. A 1957 Cadillac.
Senator Ives. That was new, then, last year, the year he was driving it?
Mr. CROSSWELL. It was practically brand new at that time.
Senator Ives. And here he was having all of this trouble with it?
Mr. CROSSWELL. So he says.
Senator Ives. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much, Sergeant Crosswell. We appreciate the cooperation you have given us, and your willingness to be of all the assistance you could.